Widow's Benefits after Spouse Benefits

jayteef · Joined: 21 Jun 2009 Posts: 349

Could someone tell me - If someone begins receiving spouse benefits early (age 62) and later becomes a widow after they reach full retirment age, is their widow benefit reduced for the amount of time they drew spouse benefits prior to reaching full retirement age?

MikeWalters · Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 1388 Location: Cincinnati OH

The answer is no. Widows benefits are not reduced by previous receipt of spouse's benefits. I can't give you a cite because it's one of those issues that involve proving a negative. The Widow is limited by any reduction taken by the wage earner (or 82.5% of his PIA if more) if he took his own benefits early. That (called the RIBLIM) I could cite.

jayteef · Joined: 21 Jun 2009 Posts: 349

Thank you Mike. That is very helpful. And I understand what you mean about proving the negative - as I didn't find any information stating they reduce the benefit (for a widow who received spouse benefits before full retirement age), but also didn't find any information explictly stating they do not. The fact that POMS didn't have instructions on how to do the reduction made it seem like they wouldn't reduce them, but I wasn't sure.

My mother was under the impression that she would continue to get her spouse benefit (reduced) and one half of what my father received. I am not sure where she got that idea.

I was also wondering if SSA paid the lump sum death benefit to the widow automatically, if she was alredy receiving benefits on her husband's record, and thus SSA already has evidence that she is the surviving spouse and they lived together.

I would have to say I was amazed at how quickly SSA paid my mother. My father died August 27 and SSA deposited money into my mother's account September 1 (Her payments are deposited into a different account than my father's payments were). Then she received her regular payment amount (spouse) September 3.

The reason I wondered about the lump sum death benefit is that the amount deposited into her account on September 1 would equal the difference between the amount my mother received (spouse) and the amount my father received plus $255.

I told her that she should receive a letter a letter from SSA explaining the deposits. Otherwise, I am not sure if the toll-free number would explain it to her, or if they would direct her to the local office.

MikeWalters · Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 1388 Location: Cincinnati OH

Payment of the lump sum benefit does not require a separate application (or any development) if the widow(er) was already receiving benefits on the deceased's record for the month of death. The closest I can find to an explicit statement in POMS to that is in the linked chart for development, which states that an application is not required in the circumstances described. https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0300210005

Because of the RIBLIM mentioned earlier, a crude rule is that the widow will normally receive approximately the same amount as the deceased was receiving. That is instead of her own retirement benefit, not in addition to it. The widow's benefit could occasionally be a little more than the deceased's benefit (due to the 82.5% cap on the reduction under the RIBLIM) and it may occasionally be less if the widow is not yet full retirement age at the time the spouse died. if the widow is not yet full retirement age, she will have to file a statement electing reduced benefits (because it is sometimes not advantageous to take reduced WIB is she is already receiving retirement benefits) but in any case a widow already entitled to spouse's benefits need not file an application.

jayteef · Joined: 21 Jun 2009 Posts: 349

Thanks Mike! You are correct. My mother got her letter - and she will be drawing the same amount that my dad got. He was getting reduced benefits - but his benefits also kept going up every year because he was self-employed (farmer) and kept paying into Social Security. He started drawing benefits at 62 - but was still paying in when he died (at 88).

For some reason, my mom thought her benefits would be more than she got as a spouse, but quite a bit less than my father was drawing. She is 76 - so she is safely at "full retirement age."

The letter isn't totally clear that she was actually paid the lump sum death payment. But sinceit said that she qualified for it, and since it didn't tell her that she had to fill out an applcation for it, and since the amoumt she got on Sept 1 would add up to the amount my father got (less her own spouse's amont she would get on Sept 3) pluss $255 - it looks like they paid that already.

Again, I was amazed at their speed at paying her on Sept 1, when my dad died August 27.